Archived comment by tim:
sluggy- the snow will be a blinding sight to see as it lays on yonder hillside.

Archived comment by slugbuggy:
Mountains are sneaky like that.

The lock upon my garden gate's a snail, that's what it is.

Archived comment by daen:
I've increased my blood-caffeine level and re-read Joe's original comment.
I withdraw my previously-stated opinion.

Archived comment by Noyock:
I had to read Baudrillard for a course last semester on, oddly enough, feminism in Japan. Still no idea how it was relevant, but that goes for about half of the material we covered, really. Interesting stuff anyway.

Archived comment by Hazel:
Am I being discussed?

*grins*

Anyway, I haven't seen Reloaded yet, but I did recently go to a conference wherein the paper I presented was a theoretical reading of the Matrix. Basically I applied (with relative ease mind you) Baudrillard, Althusser, and Marx to the first one. I could have used Lacan. I also could have gone the philosophy route, but since it was originally written for a class in Literary theory, it seemed better to go the way I did.

I'm not sure this has any bearing on anything, I just felt like jumping in because my name was brought up.

It doesn't sound like I'm Joe's sister to me in his post either. For one thing, his sister is actually shorter than I am...

*grins*

Hazel

"Welcome to the desert of the real."

Archived comment by tim:
" there is no spoon"
Yes, but first there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is.

Archived comment by Matt:
Yeah, because I'm so scary, I make Rob Zombie look like Joshua Jackson.

Archived comment by Elmin:
Yeah, and I screwed up my tense in the last sentence of the original post.

[hides from Matt, the Militant Grammarian]

Archived comment by Elmin:
On the other hand, in my example you would probably be confused as to whether or not Joe was implying that his father-in-law is female.

Archived comment by Elmin:
I don't think you need a militant grammarian for this simple inquiry...

Just think about what would happen if you replaced "Hazel" with "my father-in-law": "My brother is a philosophy major and my father-in-law is about to get her doctorate in literature." Hearing that sentence, I doubt there'd be any confusion as to whether you were implying that your father-in-law was your brother or not.

Archived comment by Matt, Militant Grammarian:
Joe's right. His post implied no such familial relation to Hazel. Any connection made by the reader is some kind of non-sequitur thingy. And he's also right about his response using "It does not" versus "she is not." The suggestion was, "So it sounds like Hazel is Joe's sister," so for Joe to say "it does not" states, correctly, that such a connection is a logical leap. Saying "she is not" only re-states that which most of us already knew: Joe and Hazel are not related by blood, while simultaneously doing nothing to quash the logical leap that an implication in that direction was made.

Everybody clear on that? Good.


And thank you, Inuki. I'm embarassed that I misspelled choreography. I blame the fact that I posted 10 minutes after waking up.

Archived comment by Joe Napalm:
So, including someone in the same sentence as my brother implies they're also a sibling?

I would think the fact that I refer to Mycroft as "my brother" and don't refer to Hazel as "my sister" would tend to suggest that she isn't my sister.

Can we get a Militant Grammarian in here for a ruling? *Grin*

-Jn-
Efreeti Sophist

Archived comment by daen:
Umm, Joe, perhaps you mean "She is not"?
Because, sorry, your choice of words did suggest that possibility.

Archived comment by Joe Napalm:
Uhm, no.

It does NOT.

-Jn-
Efreeti Sophist

Archived comment by ParU:
So it sounds like Hazel is Joe's sister...

Archived comment by Inuki:
...Because I can, it's choreography.

And "live-action anime" sounds like it would be a great name for a genre, with the Matrix being a good example.

On that note, go watch the Animatrix shorts!

Archived comment by Matt:
Thanks, Joe.

Well, okay, my freshman World History teacher happened to have a degree in Eastern Philosophy, so I got a rather heavy dose of philosophy in general. Schopenhauer, Socrates, Plato, Nietzsche (had to check the spelling on that one), Kierkegaard, Des Cartes, Locke, et cetera. So maybe my perspective is skewed.

My understanding of the literary references would probably be a lot better if I hadn't opted out of the Doomsday Literature in the 20th Century course on my way to an English Literature degree. That is, I haven't read Brave New World, 1984, Animal Farm, or Catch-22. �

And granted, fight coreography must be a very difficult thing to do well, but many of the grander moves seemed recycled, even if the smaller hand-to-hand blocking and attacking moves were well done, particularly in the swordfight scene. Hey, did anyone else notice that the statue was hollow? Who ya callin' bourgeois now, Frenchie?!

Archived comment by Joe Napalm:
That's actually rather fair, Matt...I only disagree on a few points.

I mean, you're never going to hear me telling anyone what a great actor Keanu is - though he does "In Way Over His Head" fairly well by natural bent, I think. Heh. The only defense I will make is that Neo never knows what's going on or what the heck he's supposed to be doing...so, as far as that goes, he's not totally hopeless. A real actor would've been a better choice, of course.

I think you're just scratching the surface of the philosophical questions in these movies. My brother is a philosophy major and Hazel is about to get her doctorate in literature - I think they'd both agree with me on that. Free-will, and the nature and interaction of reality and perception aren't High School freshman kinda topics...yeah, they're more alluded to than discussed in depth, but these are action movies...they do a pretty good job of it, if you keep that in mind.

Cartoon-like physics. Okay, if you're going to knock points off for that, you're kinda missing the point. Yeah, there's lots of wire-work...but this movie, much like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, is using a different set of rules. Whereas Crouching Tiger is a Chinese fairy tale, of sorts, The Matrix is live-action anime. You don't see them flying around and performing all those acrobatics in the "real" world, only within the context of the Matrix. The over-the-topness of their actions within the Matrix defy reality and the rules of nature because they're bending those rules.

Almost all wire-work in the cinema today is second-rate stuff done by lazy coreographers. In this case, it's Yuen Wo Ping (possibly the best martial arts coreographer ever and THE master of Hong Kong wire-work) operating in a context where it's a valid part of the world in question. I mean, if you go to see X2 are you going to object to the fact that there are mutants?

Siskel & Ebert ride again! *Grin*

-Jn-
Efreeti Sophist

Archived comment by Jon:
Century post.

Archived comment by Jon:
Cebu, A Mighty Wind is a most excellent movie. You should definitely see it.

The first Matrix movie is one of my favorites. It struck some kind of chord with me. I will not debate the points of comparison, as my reaction was more emotional than rational, and I would therefore lose that debate. ;*)
I'm going to go see the sequel. Sometimes you're burned on a later movie (Episode 1 - not a sequel, but produced later than Star Wars: A New Hope), sometimes you're not (Two Towers, Terminator 2, others).

Apologies for the parentheticals. I had avoided using them for a while, but it's a habit I slip into nun too often.

Archived comment by marinerd:
I don't know if I mentioned it before, but I just saw "Bend It Like Beckham" last weekend. It was fabulous on all counts. And you don't have to like soccer (I'm clueless as most Americans about it). It's just a nice picture.

I'm going to see Mt. St. Helens erupt in IMAX this Sunday (the big blow's 23rd anniversary).

Archived comment by Cebu:
You know, I didn't expect to like the first Matrix but I did. I don't know why. It's not my usual kind of movie at all.

What I really want to see now is "A Mighty Wind."

And didn't Macy's merge with Rich's somehow? I think they're calling it Rich's-Macy's. I've never had a macy's before, but I guess I kinda do now since I had a Rich's. It isn't any different inside, though. It's still lacking a lot of stuff I want to shop for.

Archived comment by Matt:
Okay, so basically, the high-minded theme of Matrix Reloaded is choice. Who has it, and when. Is it mostly an illusion, a predetermined action based upon a choice made long ago? There is a strong argument that we do the things we do because it's what we do. And nothing is perfect, but all you have to do is reboot a bugged system and it'll operate just fine for a long time. Frankly, this kind of philosophy hasn't been relevatory to me since I was a freshman in high school.

Changes from the last film include a lot more action, and at a generally faster pace, more explosions, and less bullets. The soundtrack has gone from White boy hardcore rock and roll to White boy unch-unch drum and bass-type stuff, including a Paul Oakenfold remix of some Dave Matthews song in the credits. Speaking of which, there's a minute and a half of Matrix Revolutions previews at the end of the credits, which themselves are about 15 minutes long.

Basically, the film is a big, loud cartoon with a sprinkling of high-school level philosophy. Every action scene is full of cartoon physics. Keanu Reeves still can't act his way out of a paper bag. There's a scene between a Zion council member and Neo that's so heavy-handed, obvious, and unnecessary, it made me squirm even more than the heavy-handed, obvious, and unnecessary action scene that happens after Neo visits The Oracle.

There was one bit of intellectual stimulation I particularly enjoyed. There's a line in 1984 by George Orwell as follows:

"'You asked me once,' said O'Brien, 'what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world.'"

101 is Neo's apartment number in the first Matrix and also the number on a wall on the secret floor of a building Neo and company visit for plot reasons.

I give it a 3 out of 10, basically because I value story and acting over anything else, regardless of the film.

Archived comment by Inuki:
Ack! Cut off. Anyway...

The Second Renaissance tells some of the history of the Matrix. Program is the story of the choices some people make. Detective Story brings back a familiar face from the movie in a new way. (And if it looks like a familiar style, it's because the lead animator was on the team for Cowboy Bebop.) Go watch them!

Archived comment by Inuki:
I saw the first one, and I was more fascinated by the effects than by the story or the characters. Maybe that's just me - I tend to try and figure out "how they did that" at most movies, LotR included - but it seemed that story and character weren't top priority - effects were.

Granted, I found it a very interesting premise, even though some things hit you over the head. (Guess what Neo is an acronym for?) I'm sure a lot of work went into it, getting symbols and deeper meanings, but to the average viewer it seems like eye candy. Repeated viewings may help get more out of it, but on the surface it's kind of silly. ("There is no spoon." Zen-ish philosophy, but rather funny to most people.)

Namelink goes to the site for the Animatrix - animated shorts based on the world of the Matrix. The Second Renaissance

Archived comment by marinerd:
Beats me, Joe. I was just saying what I'd read in reviews so far. I only saw the first one.

Archived comment by Joe Napalm:
To each their own...

I'm always amazed when I hear people say they're "dumb" though - there's a lot going on in those movies...a lot more than just great kung fu.

Social commentary, philosophy, religion...an investigation of nihilism and identity...you think the term "Matrix" is just a catchy computer phrase? It's probably just an accident that Neo hides his stash in Simulacra and Simulation (The Body, in Theory: Histories of Cultural Materialism) by Jean Baudrillard.

I'm not saying that anyone's wrong not to like it. Everyone's entitled to their opinion...I just don't grok how it's supposed to be "dumb".

Then again, I may be biased...I used to have a cube just like Thomas Anderson's. *Grin*

-Jn-
Efreeti Sophist

Archived comment by marinerd:
I wouldn't mind a review of the new Matrix, Matt. I've already heard that it's just as dumb as the first one, but very watchable. Enjoyable if you don't expect a tight story or any real characterizations.

My daughter refers to movies like this as "eye candy".

Archived comment by badgerbag:

Actually, the star in "Macy*s" refers to all the assh*les who buy clothes there. Yeah okay... I buy stuff there all the time! Caught!

Archived comment by Puck:
Boy do I hate to be a stickler. I wanted to leave this one for somebody else, but it hasn't happened, and it was bugging me, so ...

The religion being the opiate of the masses quote is from Marx, not Nietzche, as mooshi already established. There is a very direct connection between atheism and communism, whether or not the idealist theory requires it.

Archived comment by Matt:
Well done, Elmin. Sometimes I like to post little irritants in my comments, like that little rock in your shoe, just slightly larger than a grain of sand, that you totally know is there, but you're in a hurry to get somewhere, so you don't really want to take the time to stop, take off your shoe, and shake it out, so instead you try to shuffle it to the toe area, where there's a little more room and hopefully it'll find a nice comfy slot between a pair of toes, so you end up doing this kind of shuffle/kick step with the one foot and end up looking goofy until you get comfortable.

In a related story, I'm surprised no one shook their fist in the air and shouted, "Rabble rabble!" or the equivalent. Weird.

And now for something completely different. I'm going to see the new Matrix film tonight. If people want, I'm happy to post a review. Note that this is coming from the perspective of someone who thought the first one had more holes than the average fermented curd product from an unblessed guy in Zurich, so YMMV.

Archived comment by Elmin:
Yes, I was being sarcastic -- or rather I was playing into Matt's generalization, which for me is similar to sarcasm.

Archived comment by ParU:
umrguy - one of the enduring images of that situation is the Secret Service Agent facing the gunman with his arms and legs spread as wide as possible to stop the bullets.

And yes he did 'catch' one and no he wasn't wearing a bulletproof vest, but he survived. You often hear about courage and devotion to duty but that image is seared into my brain.

Archived comment by A. F. S. P.:
torigirl, depending on who you listen to, the pod people either represented Communism (infiltrating society, undermining the American Way Of Life) or McCarthyism (demanding mindless conformity at all costs). And I heard that the movie of Animal Farm had a tacked on happy ending that completely undermined the point of the story, although if there was more than one I might not be thinking of the same one you are. I haven't seen it, anyway.

Archived comment by umrguy:
Elmin, 1981(?), John Hinckley shot Reagan outside the Hilton in Washington, where Reagan had just given a speech. Hinckley was doing so in a deranged attempt to attract actress Jodie Foster. Reagan was not killed, and went on to complete his term, and be reelected to a second term.... or were you being sarcastic?

Archived comment by Noyock:
When I was at school in Japan, we had a disaster drills day every semester, where we practiced for all sorts of emergencies, including the possibility of the school being cut off from civilization for days or weeks (it was on top of a mountain, so a freak blizzard or something could theoretically block the road) and us having to cook rice for everybody in these huge kettles and dig field latrines and stuff. It was cool. I don't think we practiced for bombings, although we had to get under our desks for one drill, I think maybe it was for earthquakes. Needless to say, it's great fun being the 5'8" white girl who doesn't fit under her tiny Japanese desk...

Archived comment by Elmin:
Did he die?!?!

Archived comment by Matt:
Then, of course, there was the Communist plot to poison us all by putting flouride in the tap water.




Okay, those of you who think I'm kidding can just go back to your cartoon watching. I'll bet you didn't know Reagan was shot, either.

Archived comment by valley grrl:
My father used to think all insurance was communist. Really.

Archived comment by Paul:
Narf.

Archived comment by Joe Napalm:
If you ignore the fnords, they won't eat you.

If you ignore the fnords, they won't eat you.

Anyway...

My mistake Umrguy...I thought you said "where the B-2 Spirits out of"...which would have been clever. *Grin*

Fnord.

-Jn-
Efreeti Sophist

Archived comment by steff:
peasants? living outside the nike missle base?? that's just so wrong. *snicker*

Archived comment by ParU:
Actually, of course, the Nike missle predated the shoe company.

And we all had 'drop' drills two or three times a semester. Teacher says 'Drop' with no warning and the kids are under their desks in less than a second. Funny thing was years later, in high school (long after they stopped the drills), I had a teacher discussing conditioned responses and he suddenly stopped and said (you guessed it) Drop. We all were under our desks in a second and I had no conscious memory of how I got there. It was pretty amazing.

Yes the Cold War was not fun.

Archived comment by ScaredyKat:
As a kid, I lived next to the Nike base (targeting station--they kept the silos across town by the sewage plant).. I thought it was a jab at the personnel who jogged the perimeter at 5am, until someone explained it to me (yes I'm gullible). I saw a missile at the base, once, on a trailer.

They had pheasants living in their tall grass, and didn't like kids jumping the barbed wire-topped fence chasing after balls. Years later they cut the grass short & hosted summer day camps.

Archived comment by slugbuggy:
"Red Tag Sale! Today Only!
And Yes, We're Aware of the Irony!"

Archived comment by umrguy:
Joe, what pun? Did I miss something?

And ParU, all I can picture now are missiles with the "swoosh" on them :D

Archived comment by marinerd:
Up here in Seattle we've also got a big bull's eye painted on us. In fact, yesterday we made the national news for our terrorist drill. I think there was a "dirty bomb" and other unpleasantness, while in Chicago they got some kind of plague.

What times we live in!

Archived comment by hypoxic:
hell yeah why do you think the commies hated that state so much? Bikini clad chicks with pierced navels while the commies are all bundled up in fur outfits. Wouldn't you want to nuke a place like that too?

DOH! ;)

Archived comment by Jon:
Hawaii does undercover belly-button piercing operations? Dude!

Archived comment by hypoxic:
heh most of those states are also nuke targets. Hawaii with its Navel Ops bases and Alaska due to its naval and air force bases. And Nebraska and kansas home of many bases and nuke silos.